Question to NW Region Of 7 Events in one Week

[Rick King]

This is off subject but I hope to determine if there is an IMAC rule that covers this situation.
We have 2 full scale air fields in our local area that are privately owned and have been converted to RC fields and both are MAAC approved fields. One has all the hangers, meal seating for 145, BBQ facilities, dry camping and both have 2000’+ Grass runways.
The question is if we set up 2 day events on consecutive weekends and 5 single day events in between would that create any issues beside being hard on the number of unknowns needed? The goal would be to provide those wishing to take some time off work to go flying a place to go and compete. They hold week long Fun Flys with great participation levels.

[Primo Rivera]

Sounds like a ton of work but I do not see the issue, if the events are going to be in separate weekends near each other that is not a problem, if you chose to do two events in the same weekend they need to be 300 miles apart, that is a AMA requirement. You also can have two different events at the same venue within the same ama sanction.

I would suggest to have IMAC pilots participate on the long events and ask the CD if you can do IMAC demos.

Hope this helps

[Doug Pilcher]

Rick, Yes we are in the wrong thread here and off subject.


And yes, This would be quite an "Unknowns Pull" on the ISC. As Librarian I would not be for delivering 7 Sets of Unknowns in 9 days use to one entity.

BUT

Much advanced notice would be required (to include minimum of 30 Days notice) with the appropriate sanctions in place, (not sure of MAAC but AMA would require 7 sanctions) before this could be approved as well as RD, BOD approval and ISC agreeing to this many Unknowns from que.

2 (Two) Consecutive weekend events I would think at same field could be approved assuming RD approved this.
5 (Five) One Day contests in between, I would hesitate on.


I am also going to remind you of "Contest Requirements" per IMAC Contest Standards.



B. CONTEST REQUIREMENTS

In order for a Scale Aerobatics contest to be designated and recognized as a valid IMAC contest and for IMAC Regional Championship (IRPS) points to be awarded the following minimum requirements must be met: IMAC Contest Standards Rev 11 Effective: 01/01/19

1. The contest must be sanctioned by the AMA or, if the contest is held outside of the United States, sanctioned by the host country’s sanctioning body.

2. The current AMA Safety Code and IMAC Safety Code must be strictly enforced at all times during the contest. This includes activities that may occur before and/or after IMAC sequence flying.

3. The contest must be run in accordance with the current AMA rulebook for Scale Aerobatic events. Waivers as approved by the AMA or IMAC Board are allowed.

4. Deviations and Waivers must be published in advance. The preferred method is as part of the sanction. If deviations are not included in the sanction, they must be included in and published in the contest flyer or included in the details for the contest on the IMAC Website. The contest flyer must be readily available on the internet and in local media. However, in no case should any deviation or waiver be published less than 30 days prior to the date of the event.

5. Deviations must be approved by the AMA (as part of the sanction process), or the Regional Director prior to publication.

6. The contest must follow the IMAC approved template detailed below.

C. CONTEST TEMPLATE A valid IMAC contest will consist of the following:

1. All five competitive classes MUST be included on the AMA Sanction request and MUST be offered at the contest, with the exception of BASIC ONLY CONTESTS, and the U.S. Scale Aerobatics Nationals (NATS). Only these three contest formats will be considered as valid IMAC IRPS contests.

2. Freestyle is not required to be offered. However, if it is, then all applicable AMA and IMAC rules shall be followed.

3. Entry is only open to current AMA members or similar sanctioning bodies.

4. IMAC Members shall be offered a $20 discount off the entry fee, while nonmembers will pay the full registration fee. These monies of course remain with the hosting club. IMAC membership should have its benefits. (Two) 2 contests flown pays for a membership.

5. Contests will use the published IMAC Known sequences for each class for the current calendar year as published by the IMAC Board of Directors. IMAC Contest Standards Rev 11 Effective: 01/01/19

6. Each contest should target flying a minimum of six (6) Known sequences and one Unknown sequence per class. This allows for dropping the two (2) lowest Known sequences for each pilot. However, it is recognized that this may not always be possible due to weather or unforeseen circumstances. Each CD should have, as their main goal, the flying of no less than six Known sequences and one Unknown sequence per class at their contests. A ONE DAY (1) contest SHALL consist of a MINIMUM of four (4) known sequences and one (1) Unknown sequence regardless of the weather or prevailing conditions. There shall be NO combination of multiple one (1) day contests on the same weekend at the same venue or within 100 miles. If the above requirements are not met, the one (1) day contest SHALL NOT be counted toward the IRPS.

7. Unknowns can only be obtained from the IMAC Sequence Committee (ISC) through the IMAC website and part of the scheduling of your event. A minimum of 30 days before the contest date the CD must go to the National web site and find the appropriate Regional page and follow the “Schedule Your IMAC Event” button. This process notifies the Regional Director and the International Sequence Committee, and also initiates the unknown request. Note: You must log into the National web site in order to “Schedule Your IMAC Event”, i.e., you must be an IMAC member or have a member do it for you. Request and delivery of the Unknowns is all handled by email. The Unknowns for a particular weekend are typically sent out no later than the Monday before the contest weekend. Please note, that if the CD is competing he/she must designate someone else who will not be flying the unknowns (i.e., the CD may choose to use a Basic pilot) to receive, duplicate, and manage the Unknowns. The scheduling function on the National site provides for this.

8. An Unknown sequence for the Sportsman through Unlimited classes during a 2 day contest shall be flown unless prevented by inclement weather or in the case where the IMAC Board or respective Regional Director approved not flying the Unknown.

9. The Basic class will not fly an Unknown at any IMAC contest.

10. In Lieu of an Unknown Sequence, the Basic Class shall fly an additional Known Sequence. Although not an Unknown, the Basic Known Sequence flown in lieu of the Unknown shall be scored in the score program as an Unknown with the Unknown drop schedule.

11. Only one Unknown sequence will be flown at either a two day or a one day event and the score for that Unknown (Known for Basic) cannot be dropped. Events of more than two (2) days may have multiple Unknowns (Known for Basic). In this case, however, each Unknown sequence must be scored separately and calculated into the pilot's score as separate sequences. Multiple Unknown sequences cannot be added together to arrive at a single Unknown score. If more than one Unknown sequence (Known for Basic) is flown, one or more may be dropped at the discretion of the CD. Dropping Unknown scores must be done in accordance with the drop IMAC Contest Standards Rev 11 Effective: 01/01/19 schedule provided in Appendix A of this document. All sequences, Known and Unknown (Known for Basic), will follow the procedure for normalized scoring and drops as defined in the current AMA rule book for Scale Aerobatics and Appendix A of this document. Given that an Unknown(s) is flown, the Unknown (Known for Basic) sequence(s) will comprise 20% of the total normalized score.

12. For a two (2) day contest, the Unknown (Known for Basic) may be flown on either the first or second day of the contest. If the Unknown is to be flown on the second day of the contest, the Unknown will be distributed the evening before it is to be flown. If there is to be an Unknown flown the first day, the Unknown will be made available the morning of the first day of the contest (at the pilots meeting is recommended) and may not be flown earlier than the afternoon of the first day of the contest. For a contest longer than two (2) days where there is to be an Unknown flown each day, subsequent Unknowns will be distributed the evening before the day they are to be flown. Flying an unknown on the first day of a contest must be published at least 30 days in advance of the contest. In any case, Unknowns for a contest may not be distributed before the first day of the contest

13. Adjustments required due to inclement weather or other conditions beyond the control of the CD are authorized. This does NOT apply to a one (1) day contest which has a minimum requirement (listed above in rule 6) for the event to count toward the IRPS. Prior to any adjustments, CD coordination with the respective Regional Director is encouraged. 14. Additional events such as surprise Unknowns, etc., are not authorized or recognized as part of official IMAC aerobatic contests. Contests offering these types of events may use the designation of "IMAC-Style" event, in which case it must be included in the advertisement of the event. Such “IMAC-Style” events will not be counted for Regional Championship points accumulation.

With all of that shown,

Maybe a standard contest weekend 1 (One). 1 - (One set of Unknowns)

Then a 3 day Contest on Friday Saturday and Sunday on Weekend 2. 2 - (Two Sets of Unknowns)

Total of 3 sets of Unknowns.

That might could be accommodated possibly. Again with RD, BOD and ISC approval as this is outside of current template in place somewhat.

[Ty Lyman]

I don't really have a comment on this aside from the unk issue. Speaking with my ISC Chair hat on, two consecutive weekend contests wouldn't be an issue as ostensibly there would be other contests elsewhere on the same weekends...unks would be going out anyway. However, pulling 5 sets for single day contests between isn't going to happen as that would put a very large dent in our sequence queue for a limited number of folks.

[Primo Rivera]

I must have missed read the 5 single day events as other events not related to IMAC, that is why I said it can be done. Doing a single weekend contest is hard enough. Back to back weekend events at the same venue yes, 5 consecutive single IMAC events will not get my approval. There is no way that it will get the attention needed, hoping for 5 straight days of good weather, Judging in itself will be a huge challenge, the limit of pilots attending, awards to order, the extra work for the ISC, this are but a few obstacles.

If we want to continue the discussion I want it to be move to a different forum. Doug, can you help with that?

Thank you

[Doug Pilcher]

Discussion moved from Rules Committee forum to here for Rick King .

[Clark Hymas]

So we are talking two contests that are two days each and five one day contests in between? Sounds like stacking contests to me. I would vote against doing anything like this. IMO a one day contest with two knowns and an unknown doesn't align with the spirit of the basic design of an IMAC contest. If you can make it, great. If you can't, your season is pretty much f*%&#@d.

[Doug Pilcher]

So we are talking two contests that are two days each and five one day contests in between? Sounds like stacking contests to me. I would vote against doing anything like this. IMO a one day contest with two knowns and an unknown doesn't align with the spirit of the basic design of an IMAC contest. If you can make it, great. If you can't, your season is pretty much f*%&#@d.

Old conversation from back in 2021. Never gained any traction thankfully.

[Clark Hymas]

Old conversation from back in 2021. Never gained any traction thankfully.

I haven't visited the Forums much. Wasn't looking at the dates.