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Interesting roll trainer for judges

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  • Interesting roll trainer for judges

    Very interesting test for judging rolls. I found that I under-estimated a lot.

    https://jimbourke.com/index.php?page=rolltrainer

  • #2
    Is pretty cool. I find that most judges underestimate the amount of error in rolling elements. The clock graphic that Ty has in the judging slides really highlights how little error there needs to be for 5 degrees.

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    • #3
      Yeah, seeing 5 degrees from 600’ is not easy. Like the IAC judges, you also have to understand the perspective. For example, the 2020 Intermediate sequence starts with 4 of 8 up high. Catching 5 degrees off at altitude will be hard.

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      • #4
        This is an excellent tool for pointing out just how difficult judging is. To be more realistic the roll trainer should give you no more than 5 seconds to select an answer. Eventually we'll have an onboard device to record the flight and eliminate the need for judging altogether. Every pilot will be assigned an electronic tag for the contest, just like runners get for a race. No more bias, error or requirement to sit in the chair instead of enjoying the show. Then scores can be posted in real time and negative trends corrected faster.
        Last edited by Greg Hladky; 01-02-2020, 05:24 PM.

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        • #5
          My take away:

          As pilots, it's our jobs to fly as high and far out as possible to minimize chances that judges will perceive deductions. Flying that far out, sound scores are naturally better. With any luck, your judge will also not take airspace control seriously, and you'll be looking at all 9s and 10s across the board. This has been the secret to my success so far. I'm glad this tool has allowed me to share this secret with all of you! Thank you, Jim Bourke airshows!
          Attached Files

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          • #6
            I'm pretty sure that isn't your secret. Your secret is **************************** good flying.

            My take away confirms how hard it is to downgrade a 5° mistake from just about any distance. Our 40% planes are still pretty small 800' up and 200' out. I've never seen a full-scale IAC event in person. I'm curious if the distances end up making the perspectives very similar.

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            • #7
              As we used to say in full scale, if ya fly well put it where the judges can see it. If ya don't then put it high and away!

              Dave...as for perspective, it would really depend on what category you're judging. Unlimited can be as low as 328' while the Sportsman floor is 1500'. Their respective boxes are the same size (1000 meters per side and height). So when you're judging a Sportsman that plane can be from 1500' up to 4780' ....which WAY up there!
              Last edited by Earle Andrews; 01-09-2020, 06:58 PM.

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              • #8
                Whoa! Nearly a mile out? Can the judges use binoculars?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Steven Brentson View Post
                  My take away:

                  As pilots, it's our jobs to fly as high and far out as possible to minimize chances that judges will perceive deductions. Flying that far out, sound scores are naturally better. With any luck, your judge will also not take airspace control seriously, and you'll be looking at all 9s and 10s across the board. This has been the secret to my success so far. I'm glad this tool has allowed me to share this secret with all of you! Thank you, Jim Bourke airshows!
                  Now we know.....!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dave Dupre View Post
                    Whoa! Nearly a mile out? Can the judges use binoculars?
                    Actually, that would be nearly a mile high....but I can't recall aver seeing a competitor that high. As far as out, or away there is the deadline (which I think was 500' from the judging line)... then the back of the box was 3780' away (500' plus 1000 meters). That distance, of course was the same for all categories.

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                    • #11
                      love it Dave.
                      Thank you.
                      Adi Kochav
                      IMAC International Liaison
                      IMAC Europe Judges coordinator
                      IMAC M&M Committee
                      [email protected]

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