2020 Knowns

[Daniel Powell]

Starting This thread to discuss the 2020 Knowns,
Tips, positioning, strategy, etc.
So far I think the Sportsman will flow well. Glad to see an Avalanche, and having a 2of4 on a hard 45 down is a nice touch. 1 5 and 10 can fly big and you will have to consider morning sun position if you are in an area with am sun.
Good Job sequence team!!!

[Tim Hughes]

The Sportsman sequence does look like it will be very fun to fly.

[Greg Hladky]

If you haven't had a chance to get out and fly this year's sequence yet, the videos of Sacha Cecconi flying the 2020 Known sequences are very helpful. Watch them every day, practice them on the sim, then when the weather is warm enough (for us in the north) you will be ready to get out and fly! Thanks, Sacha!

[Greg Hladky]

Any tips on flying the loop with a roll in the Advanced sequence? It is the hardest maneuver in the sequence, for me anyway, if you integrate a slow roll and want to keep the loop round, yet it has the lowest K factor! Sacha makes it look easy.

[Mark Thurman]

Any tips on flying the loop with a roll in the Advanced sequence? It is the hardest maneuver in the sequence, for me anyway, if you integrate a slow roll and want to keep the loop round, yet it has the lowest K factor! Sacha makes it look easy.

What I have found is that I end up using a lot more rudder than I thought I would on the sim. Now that I have figured that out, it is a matter of timing. The smaller I make the loop, the harder it is to keep it round because things happen too fast, no room for minor adjustments. I am hoping to have the guts to try this with my plane in the near future. It took a long time for me not to cross the rudder direction up on the last half

[Greg Hladky]

Thanks. Yes, the larger the loop, the easier it is to integrate the roll. Since this is a down loop, altitude at the start is your friend. I was just practicing it again on my sim last night. I can do a decent loop about 1 out of 10 ten times. Yikes!

[Skip Messick]

I had to get over the down loop fears as well. What I finally realized is control inputs are the same as on a horizontal line but more, nothing else and don't over think it. I did start by practicing on the horizontal and arcing it up. Also works for other rolling element combinations. Still working on the timing to keep the radius constant but I'm not afraid of the ground, at least any more than usual.
Skip

[Greg Hladky]

What I finally realized is control inputs are the same as on a horizontal line but more, nothing else and don't over think it.

That's great advice! My best rolling loop happens when I don't think too hard about it. When that happens, though, I try to repeat it, so I can confirm that I finally got it. That's when it all falls apart again!

That "but more" part is what trips me up. Just when you hit the bottom of the loop, inverted, gravity is pulling you down when you need to reverse the descent and start climbing up again. But that may be where I'm overthinking just how hard I have to switch from pulling to pushing on the elevator. Like everything else in IMAC, it requires smooth, coordinated inputs.

[Skip Messick]

At the bottom of the loop the plane is upright so a right roll sequence is left rudder, down elevator, right rudder. If you don't use the rudder the loop will never be round and it minimizes the need for down elevator because the nose is already pitching up. Lots of horizontal slow roll practice makes for a good base to build from.
Skip

[Greg Hladky]

I discovered last night why I had been having so much trouble with this loop. I had recently updated the firmware and OS on my radio. As a result the model I use for the sim moved the ailerons at high rate, even though I had set them to medium, then low. So my aileron movement was way out of sync with my elevator. After fixing that I could fly the loop with an integrated roll much better and more consistently.

And just to be sure we're talking about the same thing, Figure 3 in the Advanced sequence, the down loop with a roll at the bottom, the plane should be inverted, wings level, when at the very bottom of the loop. I take it when you say the plane is upright at the bottom of the loop that you are talking about at the start of the roll?

There is no doubt that lots of horizontal slow roll practice helps here, as it does for the 270 degree rolling turn. I started doing slow rolls in Basic and would encourage anyone interested in advancing through the classes to do the same. Best advice I got there was, "Trust your rudder!"

[Skip Messick]

yes i was referring to the beginning of the roll and you should be inverted at bottom center.

[Greg Hladky]

Thanks, that's what I thought you meant.

Anyway, looking forward to warmer weather to try this sequence out with my new plane. I managed to get through the 2019 Advanced sequence in the fall with my electric 95" Extra, but really only had enough power to do one sequence. On paper my new plane should get 9.5 minutes on 10Ah packs. I need to verify whether or not that will be enough to power through a second sequence. I love this new sequence! It flows very well.

[Dave Dupre]

Skip, your idea of starting with slow rolls horizon to horizon and then progressing to same slow roll but climbing is genius. Integrating that into a loop then becomes second nature.

I've only been able to do it with the SIM so far, and I think I got the loop down as long as I keep it BIG. It will be interesting to see how well the sim progresses to the real thing. I don't have the highest hopes, but at a minimum it lets me memorize the sequence. Most of all, it gets me on the correct rudder direction. That definitely translates to the real thing -- at least for me. For instance, I'm still struggling with the entry for figure 6 (half inside loop with 2x4, opposite full roll on entry, 1.5 inside snap on exit). I can do slow rolls and 4 point rolls all day, but for some reason that full roll after the 2x4 always crosses up my rudder. I'll get there.

Snaps are the other thing the sim doesn't seem to get right. I haven't found the right balance yet. It's either WAY too quick or no where near quick enough.

Look forward to seeing everyone! I'm hoping to get to Pegasus next month. It all depends if I can get some practice in before. Not to mention, I have to put the trailer back together.

[Earle Andrews]

When you're first learning a roll reversal element.....focus on doing the first part (ie the 2x4) correctly, then....PAUSE....and then do the opposite full roll. Yes, there will be a definite line, but don't let the completion of the first part screw up the second. Once you get it down, then shorten the pause so it won't get a deduction.

[Greg Hladky]

I finally had a chance today to fly - with a real plane - the down loop with a full roll at the bottom (Advanced sequence, Fig. 3.). It was only my fifth time flying this year, so I had to work up some courage. (And height!) Turns out, after much practice on the sim, it was less frightening than I expected. My 95" Extra 330 had plenty of rudder to maintain the radius through the knife edge portions of the roll. The plane responded much like the sim model, so there were no surprises. Performing slow rolls up and down the field also helped make the rudder corrections second nature. Now I'll have the confidence to try it with my new 104" Extra.